Choosing and using decodable texts: Q&A transcript
Elaine Stanley:
Q: How should I group my students for reading a decodable text?
Rebecca McEwan:
We talked a little bit about this in the session, but let's delve in more. Primarily, you are grouping your students according to similar needs so that you can provide that directed guided instruction. Consider against what's contained in the decodable books, what your students can do, what skills they have brought to the party.
In a book with the ‘satpin’ letters and CVC words, all of the students should have relative automaticity with the ‘satpin’ letters and their corresponding sounds. And if they've all developed blending and word reading at that CVC level, then their like need or similar need is working on the fluency when applying those letter-sounds and that blending ability to continuous print, along with the irregular words. They need to all be at that similar stage so that you can move them along together and support there.
Elaine Stanley:
And then as students get well into learning the code, when they're really on their way and working through a progression learning the code, and also they're developing fluency in their decoding, at that stage, the focus can start to shift to being around those other areas of the Big Six, like we just said. If they're able to incorporate new code pretty easily and still keep their fluency up as they go, then you can focus around asking them questions more about the comprehension side of the text and start to move into that area as well. That does happen as they develop that fluency, they can attend more to that comprehension.
Rebecca McEwan:
So really those similar needs. And then also thinking about how quickly those students are able to progress together can give you some indications of who will be well grouped together.
Elaine Stanley:
Q: Which students should be reading decodable texts, and when can students read other texts?
Rebecca McEwan:
Okay. Well, all students I would say should be reading decodable texts if they're still learning new code. This includes all of our students still working along a phonics progression and also our diverse learners, so EAL learners, CALD learners. We're thinking about pace and scaffolding for those students with additional needs or learning difficulties and disabilities. All of these students can benefit from using decodable texts because it really slows down that process of learning to read, makes it really explicit.
Elaine Stanley:
And making sure there's no gaps.
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes, that's right. That's the crucial nature. Also other students in other older year levels that you might not traditionally think of using as decodables, if they're still working on new code and still learning new code, they will also benefit from using decodable texts for their reading instruction because they're giving that repeated guided practice, which can lead to the orthographic mapping of commonly read words, which leads to our fluency and contributes then to that reading comprehension, which for all of our learners is the goal for reading.
Elaine Stanley:
Basically all students can read decodables until they've mastered the code. And then really by that stage, any text becomes decodable because they've got the code and can read any text. That transition happens as they learn the code to being able to read any text really, that's right for them.
Rebecca McEwan:
Whether a book is decodable is determined by the skills that the student gets.
Elaine Stanley:
So, really, to master the code, that's really around the end of Year 2 to master that simple and complex code.
And talking about transitioning to other texts, it's good to remember that these days, decodables are really quite sophisticated books, just like any other reading material pitched at students. There is a lot of comprehension in decodables, they're lovely books and stories too. I suppose there's no rush to get them off as soon as possible either, because you'll sort of find as you start using them, there's so much that can be achieved with the decodable texts these days. They're really just as valid as any other book.
Rebecca McEwan:
And even if a student is learning complex code, they still need that repeated practice to be able to consolidate that just like they did to do that for the simple code at the beginning.
Elaine Stanley:
That's right.
Rebecca McEwan:
Q: Should take-home books be decodable too?
Elaine Stanley:
Okay. We had quite a lot of questions come through on registration about what do you send home. I suppose the first thing we would say is to remember that parents are parents. When reading material comes home, they're not teachers, and you can support parents to understand why you use decodable texts in the way that you're teaching reading.
Rebecca McEwan:
Yeah, absolutely.
Elaine Stanley:
But at the same time, the books that students take home should be ones that they can independently read, so the point is that they're practising what they've learned at school, not that they're learning something new when they go home, if the book's too hard for them. Because otherwise you force the parent into that teacher role and they shouldn't-
Rebecca McEwan:
They shouldn't be expected to be.
Elaine Stanley:
One thing we used to do actually at my previous school was have a set of different bookmarks, and if students wanted to choose a text out of interest, or they just liked the book, that they wanted to take home and read but it was beyond their decoding ability, they would use a bookmark that said, ‘Please read to me’. And then parents knew if that came home, the parent's going to read it to the child, then they can have that discussion around the comprehension. They can enjoy the book together.
But if it was a decodable text that was pitched at the student's skill and knowledge level, the bookmark said, ‘I can read this by myself’. Then parents knew, okay, the child's in charge of this one, they're going to read it, and then we can still have that discussion around it afterwards. It's a good way to distinguish between those books that come home.
Rebecca McEwan:
Also, I would add that maybe some students aren't even taking books home for them to read to themselves yet. In Foundation, for some of our early readers, they might just be taking letter–sound correspondence matching activities or cards that they're practising.
Or the decodable word rings, they could be taking those as well for their texts that the student is reading. And then that can be complemented with some of the texts that are sent home for parents to read to the students as well. They're still getting that experience with books as well.
Elaine Stanley:
And in that way you're developing both sides of the simple view for students like the language comprehension and having a text read to you and talking about the comprehension around the story, whereas the decoding side is what the student's in charge of.
Rebecca McEwan:
Also, if the school doesn't have enough resources of decodable texts to send home, those word rings and sentence rings are also really valid tools to be sending home for student practice.
Some schools will consider still sending the predictable texts home that they might have used in the past because they're there, and as schools, we need to use the resources that we have. If you are considering sending predictable books home, I would be allocating those as ‘read to me’ texts because they do still have some great vocab in them. They do still have some great storylines. The illustrations are beautiful. The conversations that can be had about those texts are great. But they don't have the letter–sound correspondences, they don't have the code, they don't have the irregular words that our students are able to read. So if we're sending them home while teaching with decodable texts in the classroom, we're not sticking true to that approach, setting our students up for success. In fact, because they'll then fall into guessing at the words and using the pictures, it can, in the end, slow down student progress in reading development if they're trying to read different texts in different ways.
Elaine Stanley:
You're sending a mixed message too, which is confusing.
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes, actually, Alison Clarke from Spelfabet, she has a video where she unpacks what it takes to read a decodable as opposed to a predictable text. That might be a good one to look up if you are interested in looking at that comparison a little bit further.
https://www.spelfabet.com.au/2015/08/predictable-or-repetitive-texts/
But let me get back to parents and take-home books and books. I guess, we can just finish on that point, that home reading – the students reading to the parents – really, it's their time to show off. Anything that they can be using for independent practice in the classroom is what is appropriate to be sending home for take-home reading.
Elaine Stanley:
It's like, ‘Look what I can do.’
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes, it's a celebration. Which takes away what is sometimes that stressful nature of take-home books and reading at home. It really should be a celebration.
Elaine Stanley:
An enjoyable experience for everyone.
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes.
Elaine Stanley:
Q: Do you only use decodable texts for the phonics that students know or have been exposed to?
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes. So that's the key.
Elaine Stanley:
That’s a short answer.
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes, very short answer, sorry. But yes, that's the key to aligning a book with the students’ skills. So only those phonics skills that have been explicitly taught. Because, like I said before, whether a book is decodable is determined by the knowledge and skills that the reader brings.
Elaine Stanley:
And, again, as we said, decodables shouldn't be used to teach something new. That's not the place to do it. That happens in your explicit instruction. And decodables are really... Their purpose is to provide that repeated practice. So, yes, they need to be applying what they've learned and what they know.
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes.
Elaine Stanley:
Q: Do you have any recommendations of some decodable texts for older students, and where can I access free resources?
Rebecca McEwan:
Well, check out our free decodables handout would be the first tip. On that free decodables handout, and I think the link went in earlier as well, you'll find that on that document we've mapped out what the progression is that matches the decodables. And also, we've tagged the ones that are more appropriate for older students as well. We've had some of that thinking as we created that resource. So go ahead and check that out.
https://www.literacyhub.edu.au/search/free-decodable-texts/
Spelfabet, as well, has a list of decodables and I believe they tag those that are more appropriate for older students as well.
https://www.spelfabet.com.au/phonics-resources/07-decodable-books/
Q: Should my school have a variety of decodable text series?
Elaine Stanley:
The reality is often schools do have a variety of decodable series and then some choose to have a range of decodable series as well. Again, it comes back to what we said during the session. The important starting point is a progression, so you know what order you are going to introduce letters and sounds and the complexity of words in. So that's your starting point.
And then what's really important is that mapping, to make sure you introduce those different decodables in the right order that matches your progression, that's the important part. I mean, there are positives to having a variety of different materials from different series and all have different characters and topics, and...
Rebecca McEwan:
Some students might like some more than the others.
Elaine Stanley:
Yes, exactly. But it's that mapping that's the key to it and making sure you’re really making everything align. That's where the work is.
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes. And again, those SPELD New South Wales Decodable Book Selectors could help you if you're thinking yes, I'd like a range. If you look at their documentation, they'll tell you which ones can map to which progressions really nicely.
https://www.speldnsw.org.au/literacy/decodable-book-selectors/
Elaine Stanley:
Q: How would you suggest assessing comprehension when using decodables?
Rebecca McEwan:
When we're assessing reading and using decodables, it's really helpful to think about the Simple View of Reading. That's the best framework I find for thinking about it. The Simple View of Reading tells us that reading comprehension, which is our goal for all of our students when we are teaching them to read, is the product of the discrete areas of decoding and language comprehension. We have those two inputs that give us the product of reading comprehension. When we're assessing, we can also be thinking about those discrete skills that are helping our students work towards that reading comprehension goal.
When we're thinking about decoding and assessment, then we need to look at our students working towards accurate reading of an unseen decodable text. And when we’re thinking about that, we'll be considering the letter–sound correspondences that have been taught and the word complexity that our students are able to access.
Now, like Elaine said, there were lots of questions around using decodables and benchmarking and assessment. When we think about benchmarking, we don't need a level or a letter and a different framework to think about what corresponds with the curriculum. But in fact, our advice is to use the curriculum as that benchmark.
So if we think about Version 9.0 of the Australian Curriculum and our Foundation achievement standard, it asks for students to be able to correspond letter sounds for the single letter–sound correspondences, and the most common letter–sound correspondences. And it asks for students to be able to read CVC words. When we're thinking about what they can read in terms of a decodable text, it would be a decodable text, an unseen decodable text with any single letter–sound correspondences and CVC-level word complexity. That is our benchmark, it comes straight from the curriculum.
Then when we're thinking across Year 1 and Year 2, we're again checking that achievement standard to see which kinds of letter–sound correspondences, what types of word complexity are involved, and therefore, which texts we should expect our students to be able to read.
The other little piece in there is fluency. From Year 1 in the achievement standard, it's asking for developing fluency, and that's because that's our extra bridge towards that reading comprehension as well. Really important to be considering that as we move through the curriculum. So that's our decoding side. We're assessing those discrete skills.
We are mostly focusing on the decoding side when we are talking in this webinar series, because that's our topic. But on the language comprehension side of things, the advice we can give is around looking at what your students are able to demonstrate understanding of when they're being read to or when they're viewing something. Because language comprehension really relates to oral language comprehension. What can students understand from oral language input?
There are some oral narrative assessments, so you could have a look around oral narrative assessments and that would help you fill in that puzzle piece as well for when you're assessing students' reading in line with evidence-based reading instruction and using decodables as your decoding side.
Then, as I said, reading comprehension, is always our goal. Absolutely our goal when we're looking at assessment as well. When we want our students to demonstrate their reading comprehension, we're looking for them to demonstrate their ability to show their understanding of a text they have read themselves.
Now, if we're asking our students to do that, we need to consider, can they read that text accurately? So do they have access to the text? Can they read it fluently? Which is that bridge towards reading comprehension from decoding. And we need to consider their language comprehension input as well. Do they have the background knowledge? Do they have the vocabulary to actually access the content in the text? If they have those things, then it's fair and reasonable to be assessing them for their reading comprehension on that text.
Quite a meaty question to start us off today!
Elaine Stanley:
I like to draw the analogy with learning to drive, with learning to read using SSP and decodable texts. When a student's first trying to read a decodable, they're bringing all of those knowledge and skills that they've learned in class and trying to bring them all together to lift those words off the page in their decoding.
It's a bit like when you're first learning to drive, you are totally consumed with all the things you have to do within the car to make that car move. You are checking mirrors and you are working out the pedals, and you've got to work out all the controls and even stay in the right lane. All of those things are totally all consuming. So we have lots of lessons to let those things develop before we start to attend to everything else on the road really, you get help to just focus on getting that car moving.
If someone was to say to you after your first driving lesson, ‘Now I just want to check if you noticed all the things that were happening along the way’, and they asked you, ‘You passed a man at the first corner, what colour was his jumper?’ Or, ‘We passed lots of sets of traffic lights, how many were red?’ You wouldn't be able to answer any of those things.
It equates to asking comprehension questions and expecting students to attend to that in their journey when it's really early in the decoding stage. You need time for that reading comprehension to develop because their lower-level skills become so automatic they can attend to those bigger picture things. I think that's a really good analogy.
The other thing as well - thinking about talking about benchmarking and referring back to the curriculum - is if you look at the comprehension side of the advice in the curriculum, in the literacy substrand particularly, it actually says that in Foundation, students should be able to discuss texts and show their understanding for texts that they've viewed or listened to or read. So it doesn't say only that they've read them and show their comprehension. Moving to grade 1, it says they can show their comprehension through texts they've viewed, listened to and read. So it's slowly starting towards the amounts that they will show through actually reading a text themselves increases gradually. I think that's good to keep in mind as well when you’re thinking about assessment.
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes, absolutely. So hopefully that's given some good information for people to base how they're planning their assessment.
Elaine Stanley:
Q: I've noticed that some of my students can read a decodable text but cannot read individual words from the text in isolation.
Rebecca McEwan:
Okay. What I'm thinking is that this student may be memorising the text. For example, if that's been read to them before, they might be using that to actually say the words in the text.
This comes back to something we talked about in the coaching session. When we are using a decodable with a student or students, then we always want to work through that letter-sound level, word level and through that we're always assessing is this student ready for this text? If you're working through that letter-sound level and they're really fluent and accurate in that, great, we move on to word level. And then if we're at the word level and the student's actually showing difficulty, then we stop there and that's where we give our support in that teacher focus group.
You might be making and breaking words with those letter–sound correspondences that are represented in the text and that is the focus of your group time or your one-on-one time that day because that is exactly where your student is showing the need. It's sort of a hurdle that we ask our students to cross – that letter–sound correspondence, then the word level – before we actually dive into using that text with them. So that should take away that difficulty when they get to the text level.
Elaine Stanley:
And I think, again, thinking about your assessment, if you’re assessing all of those discrete skills along the way, you'll know exactly where your students are at and you can target instruction to that point. So they won't get to that point where they jump ahead too much and fall down.
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes. Because while we talk about the benchmark being reading that decodable, all of those component skills are what we're assessing along the way.
Q: What should you do when comprehension for a student is significantly below their decoding abilities?
Elaine Stanley:
Well, the first thing I would say is you have to think about that Simple View [of Reading] first, and think about why is that comprehension below their decoding ability?
The first thing to try and work out is does that student have that decoding fluency so that they can really process the words effectively to attend to comprehension. Fluency would be the first thing I'd be thinking about. Is their attention mostly on the decoding? So they haven't got that cognitive space to think about the comprehension of the text.
If the student is decoding fluently and comprehension does remain low, then it opens up all sorts of questions around, well, why is there that lack of comprehension? It's worth actually looking at it at the text level first. Is the topic unfamiliar to students? Is there new vocab that they're not familiar with that's affecting their ability to understand the text? Sometimes the text structure is new and it takes time for them to get used to that or the language in the text. There's a bit of a puzzle that needs to be solved when it's a comprehension issue. So always thinking just about the text first, are there reasons why they're not comprehending that’s in that text itself would be one of the places to start.
Rebecca McEwan:
And then if we think about that language comprehension side, and if that is the stumbling block, you should consider whether you're seeing general language difficulty in the classroom. You might be observing that this student is also struggling to follow instructions or understand directions, or they might be showing some difficulty in either their expressive or receptive language as well. So if you are noticing that that's the case and you feel they need extra support, then speechies [speech therapists] are really a great go-to there because they will have that expertise to find out exactly what it is why that language comprehension is potentially lacking, and therefore decide what needs to be done for that student. So that is one avenue that you can go down.
It's a good marker, actually, if you read the text to the student and they can answer the questions, then it's probably not a language comprehension difficulty. And then we come back to looking at fluency and decoding. But if you do know that there is that language comprehension difficulty, like I said, I think speechies are a great resource. There are lots of things that we can do in terms of story mapping or syntax work or vocabulary, background knowledge-building, lots and lots of things that can be done there.
Our focus today really is on that decoding side, but certainly that's some advice about avenues you can take there.
Elaine Stanley:
I think keeping that Simple View and how those different areas come together and trying to use those to solve the puzzle really helps as well for teachers.
Rebecca McEwan:
Q: Many of my students sound out every letter in a word, even if they've just read the word on the previous page. Why do they do this?
Elaine Stanley:
If a student's having to decode a word they've just read on a previous page, then it shows they haven't yet orthographically mapped that word. Orthographic mapping is when they store strings of letters and sounds along with the pronunciation of the word so that it can be stored in long-term memory, and when they see that word, it can be instantly retrieved.
If they haven't got to that stage where it's instantly recognisable, then they haven't mapped it yet. They're going to have to decode it because it's like a new word every time they see it. For proficient readers, it's hard to understand why they don't recognise it. And often teachers say that ‘they just read it and they can't...’ But that's why, because that process actually has to take place for them to recognise it.
Rebecca McEwan:
And it's good if they're doing that, if they need to because them doing that is indicating that they do need more practice. And so they're doing that, they're using their decoding, they're sounding out and then blending, which is exactly what we want our beginning readers to do.
The only thing I would say is that sometimes students get into the habit of, they'll see you sounding out words, blending them together, showing that process really explicitly, and they'll start to think that you expect them to do that for every single word, even if they have orthographically mapped that word or they're able to do the sounding out internally and then say the word. So do have that conversation with the student as well that you should do the sounding out internally or use your knowledge of that word to read it, if you can.
Elaine Stanley:
Yes, you don't have to show me every single thing you can do. You do some of it and then just read the word once they get to that stage.
Rebecca McEwan:
That's right.
Q: When my students are reading, they can say the letter sounds correctly, but when they read the whole word, it doesn't match.
I think this is an example of a student saying, /m/, /o/, /p/, ‘pot’, and this person wants to know how can I help?
Elaine Stanley:
It makes me think of a student I used to teach that used to do that, and she was so proud of herself and she would say, ‘/m/, /op/, pot’ and we'd go, ‘No, but good try’.
It's a really common thing in the early stages of written word decoding. What it shows us when students do that is that they're really proficient at identifying letter–sound correspondences, so that part's working really well, but it's the blending part, it's working with those sounds when they've lifted them, it's working with those that still need the work in their blending.
So during your phonics lessons with your explicit instruction, you'll still be doing lots of modelled and guided practice with all the letter–sound correspondences students have learned. Those students will be still getting lots of exposure and being included in those lessons with that happening. But you will need to follow up in teacher focus groups with those students to just focus really on their blending skills.
Often things like using manipulatives where they can actually move the letters and blend the sounds, move the letters around, really helps, having that physical element as well. And you may also do that alongside some oral blending work as well, where if you give them the sounds and they blend them orally, then you can relate that to doing the same thing, but adding the letters. It really helps make that connection as well.
Rebecca McEwan:
It’s showing how that connects that skill.
Elaine Stanley:
Also, something else that often happens that I've noticed is that students can often, like in a CVC word, they can often drop the last sound or replace it with another sound. They've nearly got the blending, but they drop off the last one or they say the three sounds and then produce a word, which is actually what your example was. They produce a word that starts with the last sound. It's like they hold onto that and then say a word.
Rebecca McEwan:
Which again shows how complex that cognitive process is.
Elaine Stanley:
Exactly. One thing that really helps there is that additive blending where you can break it down that step further and help them with blending those first two sounds and then really adding on that last sound, get that last sound right. That's added on at the end. That can really help there. But really, all of those things come back to getting students to listen to what word is being made as they blend it.
Q: If a school wants to align decodables to levelled texts, what would you suggest for this?
Rebecca McEwan:
Okay. Ooh, tricky one. Thanks, Elaine. Because I would actually say you can't align the two.
The two different types of texts that we’re talking about, they’re levelled texts, if I’m understanding this question correctly, that would be those texts that start with predictable texts. And then decodables, they’re based on two very different pedagogies about teaching reading and they’re asking students for a very different skillset. In an early levelled text, one of those predictable texts, you might even see words like ‘rollercoasters’. There might be ‘I like rollercoasters’, and it’s asking the student to actually look at the picture and pick up on the pattern in that book to read ‘I like rollercoasters’ before they have the decoding ability.
Elaine Stanley:
The decoding knowledge to do that.
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes. Whereas in your decodables, an early text will have CVC words, single letter–sound correspondences, which is exactly what you are teaching them to use in class.
So unfortunately, the answer is we can't align the two types of texts. But it is through your phonics assessment that you'll be able to choose what decodable text is appropriate for that student. What code do they have? Which letter–sound correspondences? What types of word complexity can they handle? And that will tell you then which decodable that you have available is suitable for that student.
You could actually think about this the other way around a little bit, that if a student is able to read some of the really complex or the later decodable texts where there's lots of varied code, where there's quite complex word complexity, if I can say that, then you would know that that student is actually able to access other texts. It doesn't just have to be decodables for that student because they have enough code that they'll be able to read some of those texts that you might have used as levelled texts previously. Not particular levels, necessarily, because if they have the code, they have the code. But when our students have enough code, when they're getting towards the end of that progression, a book is a book. And so, they can access levelled texts, decodables, and other texts.
We would still say they're using the decodables as they are instructional texts. So if you're still introducing new code, decodables are really useful still for those students to practise and embed that new code. But, certainly, they would be accessing other texts as well.
Elaine Stanley:
And what actually happens then at that stage when they've got enough code to read lots of different types of books, they actually start to self-teach because they notice particular letter patterns in words and say, oh, we learned this sound is attached to that letter pattern, but in this word it makes a different sound. They start to extend their knowledge.
Rebecca McEwan:
They can use the code surrounding it.
Elaine Stanley:
Yes. Now, something we said in the webinar was that we would say that we'd be using decodables up to Year 2 because they're still using the code. We’re really talking about in your phonics lessons when you're teaching a new part of the code to students that they don't know, that it's good for them to practise, but as we're saying, they could be reading lots of other types of material as well outside of those lessons too.
Rebecca McEwan:
And that comes back to what decodables are for. They're a tool for students to practise and embed that understanding of new code.
Elaine Stanley:
Q: What are the other students doing when you are with your teacher focus group?
Rebecca McEwan:
In our coaching session, we talked through using that explicit teach and then moving into a teacher focus group with students who are needing extra support. In a phonics teacher focus group, that will be generally following that explicit teach.
When you are working with the group and you really need to focus and concentrate in with that group, the other students will be completing tasks that they can do independently, so we're using it for independent practice. It's the ‘you do’ part of the lesson where students are consolidating their skills. They would be working on phonics-based tasks that are geared to their level of skill development and knowledge, something they can do independently.
Then it might have some students who are taking that content from the lesson. Those are the students you have identified, that have picked that up throughout the lesson and are now able to work, for example, at word level with that new letter–sound correspondence. But you might have others who you've identified as not ready for that yet, and they'll be working on letter–sound correspondences they're already confident with.
They don't need to be fancy tasks. They can be reading decodables, reading sentence strips, using word cards. They might be making and breaking words with letter tiles. Some students might be working with a fluency partner. Those are just a few examples of what those students might be doing while you are working with a group.
Elaine Stanley:
And again, that's where your assessment or using a progress monitoring tool will help you really target those independent practice tasks to your different students' needs. And actually, we are talking more about that in our next topic that's coming up next, fluency and progress monitoring. That might be really good there for people.
Rebecca McEwan:
Q: I'm wondering how we fit everything into a literacy block.
Elaine Stanley:
All right. So very quickly, many schools like to combine all areas of literacy into a two-hour literacy block. We found that some of the schools we were working with in the past have split their block into like a 40, 40, 40 timeframe. So, 40 minutes of phonics, 40 minutes of other areas of reading, 40 minutes of writing. But there's lots of advice out there for you. Jocelyn Seamer, I'd say her blog is really great with some information about the breakdown of literacy blocks. She's a really good one. Maybe we could link to that too. It's really good for people to have a look at. All right.
https://www.jocelynseamereducation.com/blog
Rebecca McEwan:
Yes. I think we better wrap up there. But that will give you a really good start.